Braking tutorial needed by Paul

Max99

I watched his brake adjustment videos and i found them very informative.

Probably the fundamental teacher is experience but before we can do it safely many many times, perhaps some questions could be answered.

I tried to raise some different type of questions that I personally think might be easiest to understand about the brakes. I wrote few ideas/assumptions that should be corrected.

If our brakes are too tight, then even small range of our hand/fingers will lock the brakes - which is bad.
If our brakes are loose isnt it is the best scenario for beginners because that would make locking brakes almost impossible?
Also how do different types of brake work for beginners - which are most difficult brake to lock, which are beginner friendly brakes while riding - drum brakes, mechanical or disc brakes?
The last point to analyse is how to know when your scooter brakes are locked? Sliding feeling is the most accurate way to tell that you are sliding with locked brakes? Is sliding while braking the only way to know your brakes are locked in.
Should beginner stop braking breafly if he is sliding to try brake again or should he focus his attention on whats in front of him and how to keep balance on or off to avoid tree or other hazzards?
Isnt it pointless to try avoid not locking up brakes while trying to stop in snow or very wet conditions or leaves?
Bonus question for Paul - why there isnt 4.5 or 5inch tires becoming standard? I know wideweel exists but its too wide for turning perhaps. Why the industry does not think 2.5 inch is too narrow?

p.s. as you see i can only raise questions i understand that might be important, meaning i dont even know what other questions are important to know. Also it is okay if Paul is too busy to answer this, let this sit for as long as it takes. I personally am more than fine in my driving and braking abilities.

DrScootLittle

Hi Max!
Sorry for the delay. I just saw your message for the first time right now.

For cable brakes, having them too tight will cause drag, which is bad because it wears out the pads and reduces range. Ideally, if they feel too strong, the remedy is practicing braking, not de-tuning to make the brakes less strong. An exception to this might be that sometimes regen braking is too strong, and because it tends to be applied in an on-or-off manner with the activation of the brake lights, the user won’t be able to smooth it out with practice. I usually recommend setting regen brakes to 1 setting above “off”.

Drum brakes are definitely more new rider friendly. They are much harder to lock, and reach the lockup point more gradually. Scooters like the Unagi which have 100% regen brakes are the most resistant of all to locking, but they don’t stop as quickly emergency stop situation.

When your scooter brakes are locked, the best thing to do is very quickly release and grab again, slightly less hard, to regain traction. You’ll develop a feel, over time for when the rear brake is locked. Drifting to the side is one symptom, but also the vibration at the rear wheel feels a little different.

No matter what, while braking, continue to look where you want to go, and not at the thing you’re trying to miss. (if there is a tree in your way, don’t look at the tree!)

It’s pointless and dangerous to use brakes on wet leaves. (I haven’t ridden in snow, but I suppose offroad tires on snow might allow some braking). Always look ahead and avoid riding on wet leaves. They are super super slippery. Wet pavement is not bad. You have 90% traction on wet pavement. You can ride almost completely normally.

To me, 3 inch wide tires are the sweet spot right now. All of the best handling scooters I’ve ridden have 3″ wide tires. It’s possible that 4 inch wide tires could be good too, and that I just haven’t ridden a good set of 4″ tires yet. I think we will see narrower tires going away on dual-motor scooters. They’re ok on single motor.

The best handling narrow tire scooter I’ve ridden is the Apollo Air Pro.

-Paul

Max99

DrScootLittle I want to ask one more question.. I know its not my first scooter (inokim oxo) but using front brake means i ONLY hold handlebar with 2fingers. The thumb of throttle, and i use always 2fingers on breaking lever because gloves. I see no explanation how can it possibly be safe to have only two fingers on such powerful scooter(and many scooters have even more absurd power).

Can you comment more on using right hand for front brakes? So far im using only back brakes with me driving relatively slowly. thanks for reply

DrScootLittle

Hi Max,

Definitely add front brake as soon as you can. 80 to 90% of your braking power is up there.

Two fingers should really be enough to keep you on board. The trick is to make sure your stance is correct and that your feet are as far apart as possible (front to back). Also make sure that your rear foot is as far back as it can be.

The less you can use your grip to keep yourself on board and the more you can use your legs, the better you’re going to feel and the better your scooter will perform. That’s something I always practiced when racing motorcycles. The harder you grip the bars the worse the motorcycle would perform.

I notice that when I’m riding really fast scooters, I get exhausted from gripping and yanking myself forward on the throttle. By the end of the range test (50 miles later), I’m sort of surfing the thing and my arms have usually loosened up a lot. Of course, you always want to have some sort of grip going on in case you accidentally apply a bunch of throttle, but getting your legs under you and supporting you forward and back helps a lot.

Something we did to our OXO that helped a lot is that we covered the entire deck surface with grip tape. Very confidence-inspiring, though not the prettiest.

Sorry for the delay in responding. I caught COVID at the CES show in Las Vegas and this is my first day back!