Real world battery longevity

yinliu · 2021-05-05T12:54:14+00:00

It is common to suggest that you may change the battery in your scooter or ebike every 3 years due to charge cycle degradation or its calendar life. So for...

Real world battery longevity

DrScootLittle

Here’s a great plot that Chuck shared with me recently.

The second to last dot on the right is 80% and 500 cycles. Showing that if you run the cells up to 100% every time, this drops to about 250 cycles.

justin

DrScootLittle

Great plot! Exact # of cycles, of course will depend on specific cells used.

Big takeaway from me here, are general trends:

20% discharge depth = ~6X compared to 100% discharge = 1.2X more overall miles
50% discharge depth = ~4X compared to 100% discharge = 2.0X more overall miles
80% discharge depth = ~2X compared to 100% discharge = 1.6X more overall miles

DrScootLittle

True. I’m also not sure of what degradation criteria they are using for the plot. For example, at 250 cycles, it’s not like the battery stops working all together, but suffers a certain % of capacity loss.

duner

Hi,

After 3 days with my Phantom, I can say that my average daily use is ~15% of the battery capacity for commuting. My schedule is pretty stable so that’ll consistent for 5-6 days a week. I have the ability to really fine tune my depth of discharge and charging.

Looking at the chart posted by DrScootLittle, I’m thinking that I could run between 80-95% charged on a daily basis. That wouldn’t be too difficult as the charger light turns green around 95% charge and I don’t leave it hooked up to finish the last little bit. I read the charging article that states 30-80% is the “sweet spot”, but 50-80% would be better due to a lower depth of discharge, or even 65-80% since I only use 15% on a daily basis. So I’m trying to figure out what my personal “sweet spot” would be. Does charging above 80% lead to degredation as well?

I could do like 50-65%, 55-70% etc all the way up to 80-95% on a daily basis and just top up before a long ride. Just want to keep this thing going as long as possible.

tom

Your more then likely after 3 years Have to buy an new scooter all together. The battery is the most expensive part on the vehicle chances are battery price will come down by then. I"m thinking the op really wants to know how much of a pain in the ass are these things to maintain. Plus a battery can go bad tomorrow from a bad cell nothing full proof.

JamesTron

I’m basically using more than 100% of my battery 4-5 days a week riding flat out and charging twice a day for 15 months. 5450km, 297 charge cycles on the meter.

Feels like I’ve still got more than 95% battery capacity. And this is an older model DT2 MX aka New Dualtron, with the “cheap” 18ah Sinc battery. Feels like I could ride it this hard for another 5000+km with little impact to capacity.

duner

Yeah, I’m probably just over thinking things. Even if the battery lasts, the scooter might not. Or I’ll likely just want a new scooter in 3 years regardless. 😁

GTRXRider

If i want to get a new battery for the Gotrax XR (lol, me not attentive. Apparently i bought the GXL V2, but got the XR delivered), it is somewhere around 200$, if it will be available at all in the third year.

I used to let it always charge “to the green light” (whatever the electronics says that is, but disconnected mostly when turning green) and now try to stop charging when the charger is not hot anymore, indicating it will be full soon.

Anyways, the small battery requires frequent charging, i charge minimum 1x a day (from 50%->90-100%-ish) so that is does not drop dead on my next commute. The commute is like 40% of the range i get anyways. Sometimes i charge more than once a day, depending on other trips and close to full every time if possible. Range anxiety and google maps planing for distances are a thing…

The battery currently in its second summer seems to not have degraded, so that is really nice.

So, my thought: The new battery is almost as expensive as the scooter will be worth in the third year, soooo, just buy a newer model with better safety, longer range and thus bigger battery. Same usage = less degradation and selling the other one as used or having as spare…

AirCanada143

I believe overthinking things is just silly and exhausting mentally.

GTRXRider

Took some trips planning based on maps/distance/range and killed the battery at the end of two trips pretty close to home. So, that actually worked out for me and i draw the line where it impedes usage or where you stop enjoying/start worrying.

If you use all of the capacity, then, use it. If you do have no longer trips planned, or multiple trips in one day, why not trying to avoid going to 100%. And if I forget to unplug when i wanted, fair enough.

justin

GTRXRider Definitely makes sense. A lot of people get hung up on trying to eek the most life out of their battery and end up losing site of the reason they got the scooter – convenience!

JamesTron

*eke. And yeah… For my commute or for any ride over 10km where i plan to go quicker i will charge my battery to 100% within a couple hours or so of the ride. I will usually also charge it if it’s below 70%. It rarely gets below 50%…

I wouldn’t worry about charging it “too much”, or about unplugging it before it turns green, unless you plan to not use it for a few days. I’ve been more concerned about discharging it too much… And that seems to have given me good results.